Gaultier swaps Size O models for 'Size 20'

[tinkerlion]

Fashion designer Jean Paul Gaultier found his own way to comment on the 'size zero' debate - by putting a larger model down the catwalk to show off his clothes.

Dressed in a daring black corsetry, the plus-sized model dwarfed her fellow waif-like catwalk queens.

Clearly more of a size 20 than the controversial model Size 0, this voluptuous woman proved big is beautiful as she strutted down the runway at Gaultier's 30th anniversary show yesterday during fashion week in Paris.

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2006/10/gaultier041006_468x692.jpg
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=408463&in_page_id=1770&ico=Homepage&icl=TabModule&icc=picbox&ct=5


that's awesome. challenge the perceptions of beauty!

[sway2sway]

did you hear this story from Spain a few weeks ago? Models were being tested prior to shows to find out their body mass index %. If they were too waif they weren't used. I don't know what the cut off was, but apparently a lot of the lovelies couldn't quite make it.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/09/13/spain.models/index.html?section=cnn_latest

[tinkerlion]

i'd heard about it but hadn't seen that article. i hope this trend continues.

"I think its outrageous, I understand they want to set this tone of healthy beautiful women, but what about discrimination against the model and what about the freedom of the designer," said Gould, Elite's North America director, adding that the move could harm careers of naturally "gazelle-like" models.

that's over the top. if they're not within a healthy bmi then that's a terrible image to be portrayed as beautiful. hopefully the focus will remain on what's healthy and people can be educated around that idea and learn what real beauty is.

[sauce.baby]

yes! how awesome!! i'm loving this trend lately

[Rensul]

I really hope it continues...

[the duke]

BMI is bullshit...it's all dependent...cuz I wear a size 10-12 here (about a 8 or 10 US) and because I play sport and have muscle I am heavy which puts me in the 'overweight - obese' category of the BMI...

THOUGH...one swimsuit designer here used 'real' women (as in did a cattle call and trained non-models) in her fashion show for fashion week and the producers of the fashion show tried to stop them coming out because they apparently weren't as skinny as they wanted them to be...that's WRONG!!!

[tinkerlion]

i think focusing on bmi is better than the standards they have now. can we see your ribs? good, you'll do.

is there a better measure than bmi? would it be body fat %?

[sway2sway]

I think I'd like that big models outfit, a wee bit smaller ... but I'm digging the cape. Super Sway! (pass on the hair, wouldn't mind a tiara to wear in the bathtub)

[the duke]

Size is probably the thing to go by instead of BMI...i mean as in measurements. Body fat % is also important... And also where your body is proportioned...for example (and stop reading here if you don't want to hear me regurgitate what I've learned so far) if you carry most of your weight around your belly/waist, then you're more likely to get cardiovascular disease etc...BMI only shows a number based on weight and height, and weight isn't necessarily a good indicator of your fat %.

[tinkerlion]

ok. i was just curious because i've really been paying attention to bmi to try to be at a healthy weight.

[greengirlie]

I dont want this to sound RUDE in anyway.... and maybe it makes me look conceited or just liek a bitch- but I honestly dont think that we shoudl make a switch to models like that. I thin kthey shoudl eb able to have their own shows and little toothpick models can have their own. Clothes look different on different body types- so I still think they should be seperate.

[tinkerlion]

my main thing is the image of beauty we have. putting some of these skinny as hell people that look like little boys creates an unhealthy image that some people focus on. i'm not saying switch from exclusively one to the other, but show a variety. let people feel comfortable in their own skin.

and most of the guys i know would rather be with a woman who has curves.



this is one of those issues that gets me going because of my own struggles in life.

[sway2sway]

as long as the females(and males to some degree) that have disposable income, continue to purchase (purchasing being a monetary vote in favor of) the fashion magazines with the glamorous waifs, spend billions on diet product, anti-cellulite creams, and plastic surgery- it will continue. It is supply and demand like everyother thing. They aren't gonna push it, if no one is buying. We are the ones that have the power to stop the perpetuation of ungodly standards for the next generation.

[LipstickVogue]

hey, tink cool post. i like the idea of challenging the perceptions of beauty. you all know ive lost nearly 90 pounds, but im still a thicker girl, so its nice to see a model the size i used to be, i think that is really bold and awesome. sorry im so late in the game, btw.

[greengirlie]

I understand where y'all are coming from... and I dont think it is right to have UNHEALTHY models on either side of the spectrum. a size 20 is not healthy. neither is a size zero. i hope one day a MEDUIM range can be reached happily.

[tinkerlion]

i agree that health is what should be focused on.

[LipstickVogue]

i can understand what youre saying, greengirlie, but it is fashion and health or not, there are people of all shapes and sizes out there and the runway is usually not only open to a specific size but also shape. there is rarely any variance on either of those things. sure, you can say a size 20 isnt healthy, but there are still people out there who wear that size. and honestly, i didnt have the drive to get healthy until i was comfortable with myself. once i realized that a) i looked good and was a cute girl and b) weight loss was not about looking good as much as it was about not getting diabetes or heart disease, etc i had the drive to get the weight off.

[the duke]

I just also wanted to make a point that a lot of what you see on the catwalk isn't exactly what goes into the stores...that's where you get samples from...a lot of designers use small sizes as their sample (not sure why maybe save on material cost?) therefore there's a need for smaller models...

I also know that there's a massive obesity problem in the western world (the US is 1 and I believe Australia is 2 in the world as the worst), so that's a massive health problem if you want to look at things from a health perspective. Typically, yes the sizes of clothes etc are different from brand to brand and what was the 'right size' in the 50's is totally different to now, but still...I think that for a lot of people who are size 20, it's dangerous and they need to do something about instead of complaining about the catwalk models being too thin etc etc.....


and now I'm waiting for people to jump down my throat....

[LipstickVogue]

im not gonna jump down your throat, but from a mental health standpoint, its just as unhealthy to be given a small defenition of what is beauty. and in the fashion world, i dont think its about health. i dont remember who, but i know someone already brought up the point that a lot of catwalk models look unhealthy on the other side - too thin. i guess my main point is this - i dont think there is anything wrong with him having a model who is a size 20 on the runway. i think promoting acceptance of all shapes and sizes is the best. and if someone is happy and loves themself for the size and shape that they are then no one else has any business telling them that they need to be bigger or smaller.

on a personal level, i dont give a shit about runway shows/models, really. but i dont think that there is anything wrong with a "plus size" model either.

i have a friend on both extremes, one is 5'1 maybe 5'2 and weights nearly 300 pounds. the other is 6'1 and weighs maybe 130. the first is obviously going to be in danger someday of heart disease and diabetes. the second, in my opinion looks how she should, she eats properly, she is just naturally a string-bean kind of girl and most girls dont have that figure without trying or starving. i dont think it means either of them are unattractive and should be shunned from fashion. sure, i want my friends to be healthy, but its their choice and i love them and think they are truly beautiful either way.

[sway2sway]

I think it's all an escalation of the perversion of reality. People are more and more ineffectual and disconnected. They don't know themselves and therefore they don't know why they are really unahppy. At first glance, it seems like it'll be a hell of a lot easier to fix the outside of ourselves than our insides, so we keep trying and trying. It goes right along with the crazy proliferation of cosmetic plastic surgery. I don't think a person is ever going to feel happy and 'perfect' if this is how they go about it.

I looked up a study done by the the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention where they'd been following height/weight data since the 1960's:

-in 1960 the average adult man weighed 166.3 pounds and was 5'8"
-in 2002 the average adult man weighed 191 pounds and was 5'9"

-in 1960 the average adult woman weighed 140.2 pounds and was 5'3"
-in 2002 the average adult woman weighed 164.3 pounds and was 5'4

-in general the average adult BMI has risen from 25 to 28%

So, america has gained an average of 25 pounds per person, yet you could probably estimate that a model from then to now, would be about 25 pounds less. It's like a perverted equal and opposite reaction.

I also read that the average model today is usually 5'8' and weighs between 108 and 120lbs. For comparison sake, I looked up Marilyn Monroe's stats. She was 5'5" and 115-120 pounds. Bettie Page was also 5'5" and weighed 128 pounds.

Personally, I think the latter 2 are far sexier than the waifs of today. Not to say that the average person doesn't need to get off their ass and stop eating so much processed food; but, making the models skinnier isn't going to lower everyone else's weight as well. I don't really know how much media, popular culture, and big business drive the trends(or are to blame)- I just know what I think and what I think is we sistas need to pass the truth and the esteem along to other sistas.

[LipstickVogue]

thank you, sway. i couldnt have said it better.

[sway2sway]

well thanks lipstick, I like digging into womens' issues.

[sway2sway]

I just realized that sounded a tad gynecological, and that ain't what this girl meant. (probably I'm the only one thinking it though and now, damn! I've swayed all your thoughts and you weren't even there to start with)

[sway2sway]

let's explore womens' issues,
"Ma'am, mind if I inspect your woman tissue?"
To which she replied, "piss you!"

I'm goin nuts at work!!!!

[greengirlie]

i can understand what youre saying, greengirlie, but it is fashion and health or not, there are people of all shapes and sizes out there and the runway is usually not only open to a specific size but also shape. there is rarely any variance on either of those things. sure, you can say a size 20 isnt healthy, but there are still people out there who wear that size. and honestly, i didnt have the drive to get healthy until i was comfortable with myself. once i realized that a) i looked good and was a cute girl and b) weight loss was not about looking good as much as it was about not getting diabetes or heart disease, etc i had the drive to get the weight off.

I understand as well... butt here ar epeople outt here that are size zeros too. as of right now- the runway is really only open to one size and shape. once day that might change- but i HIGHLY doubt it.

[LipstickVogue]

thats my point - im not suggesting that we should shun size zeros. all i was trying to say is that we should be more accepting of different shapes and sizes. that was the whole point of me talking about one rail-thin friend and one heavy friend. and fine, the runways are open to one size and shape, but that doesnt mean i have to be okay with it, or agree with it, rather. it doesnt mean that i shouldnt speak out against it. and mostly, i agree with sway that us ladies need to stick together. there is enough shit out there already that makes girls compete and shit, and im tired of it.

and just to clarify, greengirlie im not mad at ya or anything like that. its hard to tell when people are acctually pissed off on the internet, so i edit this last bit to make everyone knows no hard feelings here, just discussion.

[the duke]

I understand as well... butt here ar epeople outt here that are size zeros too. as of right now- the runway is really only open to one size and shape. once day that might change- but i HIGHLY doubt it.

Yeah I highly doubt it either...sad, but that's how it is...I reckon it takes a certain type of person to be a runway model...compete smoke, take coke, smoke some more and have a carrot stick...but they make a lot of money doing what they do for a short period of time....

But, like you said Sway and LSV it's about sticking together...so while we agree to disagree sometimes, no hurting :)

[tinkerlion]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYhCn0jf46U

[sway2sway]

that's awesome tink. If you're trying to look like the models in the fashion magazines, you should take a peek at that dove commercial...the models don't even really look like the models in the fashion magazines. I liked the billboard ads that came out last summer, I thought those women looked great (and I liked all the matching white underwear).

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i60/marley_lin/images.jpg

[sway2sway]

remember a few years back when Jamie Lee Curtis came out and did a story about what is really done at a photoshoot to enhance various areas of her body/face and to minimize others. She also showed a picture of herself untouched.
I admire her for that, very real.
So maybe half the shit in this world is fake. I can deal with that as long as the people that should know have that knowledge, so they are not harming themselves in emulation.

http://www.lhj.com/lhj/printableStory.jhtml?storyid=/templatedata/lhj/story/data/jamieleecurtistruethighs_08212002.xml

[tinkerlion]

that's a great article. and that's what should be encouraged, loving who you are and what you look like. even if you just help the people around to feel comfortable with themselves, it's a start.

[lietuvaite]

tink, that was a great commercial. was it ever on tv? i don't recall seeing it, but wish it would be on. young girls need to be reminded of stuff like that.

i also remember when Kate Winslett was pissed that some magazine airbrushed her cover to an extreme - she kept saying there's no way my thighs are that skinny and i want everybody to know that. i wish more people would speak up about all the image altering that goes on, so young girls would understand that it is just that - altering.

[tinkerlion]

i think it's a commercial that will be coming on. it's part of dove's real beauty campaigne. i wasn't quite awake this morning when i saw a clip of it on some show, but i did remember to look it up on youtube:) . i love the internet.

[sway2sway]

the dove site actually has some interesting stuff on it
http://www.campaignforrealbeauty.com/

I found this article on there. It gives a bit of perspective to the trend we're seeing now...it ain't the end all and be all.



The Fashionable Body: A Brief History
by N. Etcoff PhD


Many girls and women feel excluded from society's stereotype of ideal beauty.

In fact, in a study commissioned by Dove, we found that only 2% of women around the world feel comfortable describing themselves as beautiful! The current recipe for ideal beauty has the following ingredients: a beautiful woman must be extremely tall and very thin, have small hips but a big bust. She has large eyes, large lips and a small nose. We are so used to seeing this beauty stereotype in the media that we assume that such features have always been considered ideal. Think again.

Curvy didn't always mean "fat" and "fat" didn't always mean anything other than underweight and underfed. In fact, wide hips and bottoms were once so prized that women hid their unfashionably slim hips beneath bustles, an undergarment that tied at the waist and padded their backsides with rolls stuffed with cork, horsehair or down. In the 1880's bustles were so flamboyantly huge that "it was popularly declared a tea-tray could be comfortably rested on it."

At one time, smaller breasts reigned as the ideal. Women did not wear push up bras or get breast implants: they sought breast flatteners. Early corsets flattened breasts and pushed them to the side, the better to highlight the beauty found further south in wide hips. In the 1920s, the ideal of beauty for the flappers was the flat chest; to the newly emancipated women of the 1920's breast implants would have been hideous.

The fashionable face also changes through time. One of the legendary beauties of all times was Cleopatra, the last queen of ancient Egypt and the lover of Julius Caesar and Mark Antony. Newly authenticated portraits show that Cleopatra was not a beauty by current standards -- she was too short, too fat, and her nose was too big. Cleopatra was barely 5 ft tall (average for her time) and had rings of fat around her neck, called "Venus rings" by art historians. Her nose was prominent and long with a pronounced downward curve.

Full-lipped beauties like Angelina Jolie would have been out of favor in England of the eighteenth century. At that time, Sir Henry Beaumont said that in the ideal feminine face "the mouth should be small... a truly pretty mouth is like a rose-bud that is beginning to blow."

This brief tour of the fashionable face and body has one major take away lesson: ideals of beauty change and beauty is and always has been a moving target.

Prominent noses or button noses, thin or plump, big breasted or flat chested, curvy or petite, straight hair or ringlets a diversity of features have been the ideal of beauty at one time or another in history. Be yourself and prize the features you have and feel confident in the skin you are in.

[sway2sway]

hahahahaha, bustin a gut...

"a truly pretty mouth is like a rose-bud that is beginning to blow"

I've heard that before....

[greengirlie]

I didnt think you were pissed... adn i think people are beautiful in all shapes and sizes. i was stating my opinion that things probably wont change- but that doesnt mean we cant try and do something about it.

[the duke]

that campaign is already running here...they have a magazine out run by 'real' women...it's not bad...what I find kinda bad on my behalf is that I'm more interested in reading about celebrity bullshit that goes on than their 'real life' stories about how it is to be a woman in today's age etc etc...

It's a good thing...but the underlying factor is education...start educating younger...imagine what could happen!